John Carroll has deep roots in Marin and in public education. The longtime school administrator is running to replace Mary Jane Burke, the seven-term county superintendent of schools. Mr. Carroll, the superintendent of Lagunitas and Bolinas-Stinson Union School Districts, grew up in Ross, and his father was a career assistant principal in San Francisco. A graduate of Cal Poly San Luis Obispo and Sonoma State University with a master’s and credential in education administration, he has spent the majority of his life working in districts across Marin as a principal, administrator and special ed teacher.
Mr. Carroll is running against Michele Crncich Hodge, a Mill Valley school board trustee. He has endorsements from the superintendents of all of Marin’s major school districts and from Ms. Burke herself, whom he calls a close friend and mentor. But he stresses he is “not Mary Jane Burke,” and would differentiate himself with a new focus on equity and clear career pathways for students. The Light sat down with Mr. Carroll this week to talk about the racial learning gap in Marin, declining enrollment, charter schools and his achievements as a district superintendent. Here is our abridged conversation.
Point Reyes Light: What challenges would define your first term as county superintendent?
John Carroll: Marin has a stubborn problem with student achievement being predictable based on race. That’s really sad. It’s always been there. During Mary Jane’s last few terms especially, we did a lot of really good consciousness-raising and work around understanding what our problems are with making sure that all kids, regardless of zip code, color, can have a successful school experience. I think we need to take more concerted action, and I think that means coalescing hearts and minds across the county in parent communities, with upper-level school leaders and with teachers and staff, to get us on the same page as to what’s holding us back in that area.
Light: One of Mary Jane Burke’s most prominent challengers was Matt Nagle, whose campaign focused on closing the learning gap. It sounds like, to you, that’s an urgent issue.
Carroll: To me, it’s the issue. There are others that are all in service of that, things I would take more specific direct action toward to improve that.
Light: What are some of the steps you’d take?
Carroll: There are things we do that are just part of school, that everyone’s used to, that we haven’t dug deep into and said, ‘Okay, does that make sense?’ We need to have a conversation about things like honors classes and A.P. classes and access to those. Without telling people that there’s a right way to do it, John’s way, we need to have a bigger conversation and look at what the outcomes are when we have testing to get into an A.P. class or an honors class. What’s the end effect? What does the research say? I have a preconceived idea that we’ll do better if we don’t put up as many barriers.
A lot of our kids don’t see the relevance of their education, and I think that becomes more and more true as they get into high school. I have a junior, a highly academic kid, and when I talk to him about the relevance of the work he’s doing, he’s not seeing it, and a lot of his friends are saying the same thing. There are things they’re doing just so they get good grades, so they can go to college, and a lot of them are not sure why they’re going to college. The key thing—and I think this reflects the racial inequity thing—is to outline for kids as early as possible a viable career or college pathway they can understand early, even as early as sixth grade. I think when people have an idea when they’re young and they can line up their educational experience in service of that idea, that really makes school better for them and the people who are trying to help them.
Light: Another equity concern is the lack of affordable housing. Does that impact schools through declining enrollment and in other ways?
Carroll: I’ve done a lot of delving into why we have declining enrollment. In Lagunitas, we were the district in Marin with the biggest percentage decline last year. Every district in Marin has declining enrollment except for [Bolinas-Stinson], which is up. So what’s the reason? I looked at census data and did a report for my board, because people were like, ‘Where’d all the kids go?’ Census data shows there are just fewer kids. In the San Geronimo Valley, the number of kids has dropped dramatically in the last 20 years. For basic aid school districts, it’s not quite as frightening because our tax base is pretty high so we don’t have to have dramatic layoffs, but in places where it’s per-pupil funding, it’s really damaging. Can we encourage more kids to exist? I don’t know. One thing we can do, and it’s been successful in Bolinas-Stinson, is offering programs that are appealing to younger families if they have the inclination to send their kids to public school. Once kids get in the door, before you know it, they’re staying the whole time.
And then teacher housing, of course. That’s a real concern. There’s lots of conversation now about providing workforce housing in Marin, and I’d be supportive of anything we can do in that area. I know some of that would be controversial. We have teachers who commute from out of the area, and one thing we’ve done there is just outreach to the community. There are people who might have a large property with an extra unit that they will rent out at a lower rate to a teacher. The community wants to support the school, and there are people out there who will step up.
Light: Lagunitas is dealing with budget problems this year because the district has to pay for transfers to Ross Valley Charter School. The same problem will hit Ross Valley School District next year. Do you have plans to deal with this on a larger scale?
Carroll: It’s a financial reality for us right now. The law says we have to pay the equivalent of [average daily attendance] funding to the Ross Valley Charter for any student who lives here and goes there. I have to get over it and admit that’s the truth. The county has fiscal oversight of that charter, and I think they perform that oversight in good faith and that’s their job. I have other views about charter schools in general.
Light: What’s your position on charter schools?
Carroll: I don’t think charter schools are necessary. Not 100 percent, but the regular charter school that you get in most places, I don’t think Marin County needs them. We have local districts that know how to be responsive to the needs of communities. If people want to do a special or different program within the context of their public school, I think the capacity for local districts to provide that is proven. Lagunitas, I think, is the best example. We’ve had as many as five alternative programs, and our board has always said, ‘If we get organized enough, let’s just do it. We don’t need a charter board to handle it.’ That keeps the community together. It makes people work together, rather than having the division that comes with charter schools. Nationwide, charters were started as a creature of urban education that wasn’t working. It has clearly been co-opted by people who want to privatize education. The Walton family made donations to the Ross Valley Charter. That tells you something.
Light: You’ve worked in West Marin for eight years. How will you make sure you’re in touch with Marin as a whole?
Carroll: As the superintendent, I’ve always been in touch with Marin as a whole. I’m on four countywide boards and commissions, so I’m in touch with school leaders from every district, all the time, and that’s been true for eight years. I didn’t work in Novato, and that’s a big district. I have friends there and my grandparents live there, but I didn’t go to school there, so I think I need to do some more outreach. But I feel like I’m pretty dialed in throughout Marin.
Light: What have been your biggest accomplishments as district superintendent?
Carroll: Some were important to me, but I don’t think people even recognized they happened. In Lagunitas, I think we now have the strongest teaching staff. My kids went here, so I knew about it when my 20-year-old daughter was in kindergarten. We had very good teachers then, but in the last couple of years, our staffing has gotten really good and that didn’t happen by accident. I give a lot of credit to [principal] Laura Shain, who’s been a great partner and leader on this, and to the board. Then there are some [accomplishments] that are dull but important. We were able to reduce health care costs and increase services for employees by moving to a new provider. I’d learned about that in previous jobs. Then clearly, the preschool in Bolinas-Stinson. I can’t take credit for being the one who thought of it, but I will take credit for being the one who got it done. That board gave me a clear directive when I was a brand-new superintendent. Finding the right people to run that was a huge lift. Every change comes with challenges, but it’s been great and well-attended, and it looks like it’s going to be viable for years to come. That was a real success.
We had a parcel tax, Measure A, that was renewed, and I think I had a lot to do with rallying that. It was the biggest parcel tax in Marin County, it had the highest elevator. That was a moment when people were saying, ‘You’ll never pass that. No one’s going to vote for that.’ People turned out to the tune of 68 percent to say, ‘Yes, we want that for our school,’ showing that people who pay taxes here really support the work that we’re doing. Then there are other things that I care about that maybe other people don’t really see. When I got here, they had A through F grading, and that just encourages kids to comply and get the grade rather than learn. It took a couple years, but now we have standards-based reporting. For kids who are from historically underserved communities, letter grading doesn’t work very well, typically. Now we’ve seen private high schools heading in that direction too, following our lead.
Light: Why vote for you?
Carroll: I can give two answers. Mary Jane Burke reminded me. She said, ‘The reason I’m for you, and everyone who knows you is going to vote for you, is because you put kids first.’ That sounds corny, but it’s true. Anyone who’s worked with me will tell you that I figure out what’s in the best interest of kids. I will sacrifice just about anything else to get to that. Adult convenience comes second. I like happy adults, happy staff and teachers, but in the service of what’s best for kids. Then I think the clear difference between me and my opponent is just that I’ve been a superintendent before. I am well-versed in every aspect of public-school education and an expert in some areas. Curriculum instruction, student discipline, facilities, elections, school board relations, H.R., budget, I feel like there’s nothing that is going to make me uncomfortable.